July 26, 1976   Bhaktivedanta Manor
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PART I: “You've been so busy…”

(Prabhupāda is very hoarse)

George Harrison: How do you feel?

Prabhupāda: I have old man's disease, cough and cold, so coughing. But still, work is going on, and I shall complete eighty years this month. September, eighty-one. So now, due to age, it is becoming little difficult.

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa.... So how are you?

George Harrison: Quite good.

Prabhupāda: Chanting is going on?

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. That is our life and soul. Gṛhe vā vanete thāke, 'hā gaurāṅga' bole ḍāke. Wherever you live, it doesn't matter, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is our only support. So bring food here.

Jayatīrtha: We should have the lunch here?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

George Harrison: All the devotees are looking really good.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

George Harrison: The devotees are looking great. Strong.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Phalena paricīyate. By the result, one has to study. Yesterday, one devotee's father and mother came, Hari-śauri. She and his father were very pleased to see him healthy, bright.

Mukunda: They hadn't seen him for six years.

Prabhupāda: Six years, yes. So we are inviting everyone, "Come here. Such a nice house given by George (laughs). You live here comfortably, eat nicely, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." We don't want any factory work.

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Simply kartal and mṛdaṅga. Still, people do not come. They'll prefer to go the factory, whole day work in the hell. (laughs) They prefer.

George Harrison: I suppose some day the whole of the world will just be chanting in the country.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible, but if some of the leading men, they take it seriously, then others will follow. Just like in our book, your signature is there, "Oh, George Harrison. Yes." They take it without any consideration. Kṛṣṇa book. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tad tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. If the leading man does something, then his followers also do. This is the way. So if some of the leading men of the world, they take this movement seriously, then people will be happy. There's no doubt about it. You have come alone, without any associate?

George Harrison: Just on my own.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

George Harrison: It took me a while to find it. They're always building new roads everywhere and change the whole countryside. So I got a little lost.

Prabhupāda: You came here twice, right?

George Harrison: Yes, I've been here three times. Where will you be in India when you go back to India?

Prabhupāda: Most probably in Bombay. You have been in my Bombay?

George Harrison: I was going to go to Bombay. Yes, Bombay and Vṛndāvana when they were just building.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Vṛndāvana, if you come there, stay for some time.

George Harrison: Yes, well, ah, this December...

Prabhupāda: We have got very nice houses, both in Bombay and Vṛndāvana. And Māyāpur also. Wherever you like. You will not be very uncomfortable.

George Harrison: I was going to go to Bombay for a wedding. Some friends are getting married.

Prabhupāda: When?

George Harrison: December the fifth, I think.

Prabhupāda: Very nice season in Bombay. Best time.

George Harrison: You know, I think you met Laksmi Shankar, lady singer? Her daughter, who is also a singer, Viji, Viji Śrī Shankar, and she's marrying a South Indian violin player, L. Shankar.

Prabhupāda: He's also Shankar?

George Harrison: Well, he's called L. Shankar. You know that South India they have a funny way around them, they have like a surname. He's just called L. Shankar. His brother is called L. Subhramanyam.

Devotee (1): George says he wants to spend some time in Vṛndāvana.

George Harrison: I was only there for about thirty-six hours last time.

Prabhupāda: We have got now very good centers. Another gentleman, he's offering us a very good place at Mahābaleśvara. That's one of the famous India stations. A very nice climate. So you can come and stay there. We have got now many good centers.

George Harrison: I'll come and see if you're in Bombay, because I'll be near where the temple is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay is just like garden. As good as your place here. No. Not so big. It is seventeen acres, and Bombay is five. Just go on. (prasādam being served) Give him whatever you have got to give. But don't give much. When he wants something more.... Waste not, want not. Give more, that preparation, you should give more. (laughter) That is called (indistinct). You can bring it, prasāda.

George Harrison: I'll just wash my hands.

Prabhupāda: You can wash here. The sink is there. Here is also water. You can put the bowls outside, here, so that there will be sufficient place. Our Indian system is like this. That's all right. Sit down, you also sit down.

George Harrison: I see you've done new books. You've been so busy, there's so many books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are already fifty-four, and another at least thirty books I have to finish before my death. (laughs) That I am.... Give him a puri. Where is Ravi Shankar?

George Harrison: He's in.... I think he's in New York. He'll be here the first of August, and then I think he's...

Prabhupāda: He has got his house there? In New York?

George Harrison: No, just a house in Benares. Benares. He doesn't have anything. He just stays in hotels.

Prabhupāda: I thought   in Washington somebody told me that George Washing..., George Harrison has got his house here.

George Harrison: Yes, he had a little house here, but he...

Prabhupāda: No, you have got your house in Washington?

George Harrison: No.



PART II: “Three is given to the enemy.”


Prabhupāda: No. Now we can begin.

George Harrison: Okay, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gurudāsa: Nimbu-pāni?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. You give him two more samosas, he likes it. So now you can begin also. Yes. All the boys and girls are so nicely qualified for Kṛṣṇa's service.

George Harrison: They are looking better and better all the time. It's nice for me to see Gurudāsa. He's turning into a mountain. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: His wife has also sannyāsī, renounced. Have you seen her latest?

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupāda: She has cut hair and white dress, living alone in the temple. Vairagya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. This bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidyā, means detachment. That is the perfection of life. If we remain attached, that is conditional. Māyā has made so many things attractive so that we have to remain attached, and to come out of this attachment is called bhakti. So one man, you can sit down, you can eat. Pradyumna, you can eat.

Pradyumna: I've taken some milk before.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you don't require. Now you can eat, go on. Prasāda prapti mātrena. Our Jayatīrtha prabhu is a good manager. Management, looking after. Yes, he's a very good manager, experienced.

George Harrison: Hm?

Prabhupāda: He's experienced manager.

Jayatīrtha: Not very good managing this place now.

George Harrison: Well, it seems okay. Seems to be taken over pretty good. Peacefully.

Prabhupāda: He was also managing Los Angeles. Now we have brought him here to see things nicely managed.

George Harrison: It feels good, nice vibrations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One thing, Jayatīrtha, why don't you sprinkle this water in this ground?

Jayatīrtha: Well, we do sprinkle it.

Prabhupāda: Just have an ordinary pumping, then it will be green.

Jayatīrtha: There's a kind of a limit on the amount of water pressure you can get these days.

Prabhupāda: Limit?

George Harrison: There's been a drought in England, there's no, very little water.

Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous. Everything is now yellow.

Jayatīrtha: It's greener here than most places around, but...

George Harrison: Everything's so dry this year, lots of trees and things dying without water.

Prabhupāda: That is the punishment for this age. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There will be scarcity of rain and there will be scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. And people will become mad on account of these three things. Anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa, karopī.(?)

George Harrison: It's getting dryer in England each year. It's probably going to end up as a desert in another hundred years.

Prabhupāda: They expect like that?

George Harrison: Well, I don't know. I think the whole world's changing. Somebody said it's the pollution, leaves so much..., there's so much of the oceans now with polluted and with oil on the top, there's not so much evaporation anymore.

Prabhupāda: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.

Gurudāsa: In New York they had one island of refuse floated in to shore. For years they were building up island of refuse, and it floated in, and now no one can go to the beaches.

Prabhupāda: Samosa. Where is samosa? There is only one left?

George Harrison: I'm okay, actually.

Devotee (2): There is sour cream.

George Harrison: I've got plenty, thanks.

Prabhupāda: Prasada, we can eat up to the neck. (laughter) There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?

George Harrison: Yes.

Mukunda: There's a very nice mango preparation there, did you taste?

George Harrison: Which one?

Mukunda: Mango.

George Harrison: Oh, this one.

Prabhupāda: One German girl has prepared. We are introducing restaurants like this, and people are liking very much. We have got one restaurant in Hawaii, another restaurant we are organizing in Boston. That is being directly done by Alfred. You have met Alfred?

Gurudāsa: Alfred Ford, the grandson of Henry Ford.

George Harrison: No, I've never met him.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He is also a very nice boy. Of course, younger than you. He's only twenty-four years. What is your age now?

George Harrison: Thirty-three.

Prabhupāda: Thirty-three. That boy is also very nice young boy. Give Jayatīrtha? No?

George Harrison: Do you feed everybody who comes Sunday?

Prabhupāda: Sunday we have about five hundred to one thousand.

George Harrison: :So they must cook for days to feed all those people.

Gurudāsa: No, day before, night before.

George Harrison: Do they bring food as well?

Gurudāsa: They bring grains or something like that.

Prabhupāda: We had a very gorgeous Ratha-yātrā ceremony in New York last Sunday.

George Harrison: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Sunday, eighteenth.

Pusta Kṛṣṇa: A week ago yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Give...

Gurudāsa: We fed about ten thousand that day.

Prabhupāda: Cauliflower. Take little.

George Harrison: I can't finish. (laughter) I'm trying to finish one so I can start on the next. I was sick also lately. I had something, I went yellow. I had jaundice. Don't know why, just had food poisoning or something, and it affected my liver.

Prabhupāda: Who cooks for you?

George Harrison: Sometimes me, sometimes, ah.... I don't know, I think we'd had some Chinese food.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you should not take.

George Harrison: Because I was working as well, so I, you know I think I was pretty tired.

Prabhupāda: Better you cook simple food yourself and take it.

George Harrison: The only thing I could eat was papaya.

Prabhupāda: Papaya is very good, yes.

George Harrison: I still have...

Prabhupāda: Give him, give him, give him. No, that is the different. Oh, all right. We are just attempting a big planetarium in Māyāpur. We have asked government to acquire land, 350 acres. That is negotiation going on. We shall give a Vedic planetarium.

George Harrison: Is that the one you were talking about? With all the...

Prabhupāda: In the Fifth Canto.

Gurudāsa: The planetarium will be 350 feet high and show the cosmology of the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: The construction will be like your Washington capital, like that.

George Harrison: A big dome.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Estimated eight crores of rupees. Is there any dahi preparation? Oh, that's all right. Now, there is fruit. You...

George Harrison: Very good. Fantastic. Maybe just a little bit of, but now I'm not.... Thanks. That's fine. No, okay, thanks, fine, that's enough, that's fine.

Prabhupāda: That watermelon, you can give. It is water.

George Harrison: Now let me finish all this.

Prabhupāda: This is that mango preparation.

George Harrison: Okay.

Devotee (2): It's coming.

Prabhupāda: You like that preparation? Yes.

George Harrison: We used to have this with milk at Hrsikesa. Every day they'd leave outside of the door. It's good. Do you, Mukunda, break even with all the costs, running cost? Do you do okay with all this food, fruit and stuff?

Mukunda: Oh, yes. More than even. We have about thirteen hundred life members in the Indian community. And then when they come on the weekends they bring food, they bring these hundred pound donations, money in the box.

George Harrison: At one time you just had the Godhead and incense.

Mukunda: Yes, now it's all public support.

Jayatīrtha: We don't sell incense anymore.

Mukunda: And the books we just sell for very little; we hardly make any money on them at all.

Prabhupāda: Are you reading sometimes my books? Which one?

George Harrison: Mainly Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is the main book. (laughs)

George Harrison: Mukunda gave me the new books, but there's so much in, ah, there's just so much to read.

Prabhupāda: Philosophy.

George Harrison: I don't know how anybody could have written it, it's difficult enough to read all that amount.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they are surprised how one man can write so many books, but it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise not possible. Human being, it is not possible.

Mukunda: That one series of books I brought you, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hari-śauri? There is no sweet melon.

Mukunda: And every single word is written by hand, five hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: You are in the same house?

George Harrison: Hm? Henley.

Prabhupāda: Henley, yes. Very nice house.

George Harrison: Hm, very nice. I work from the house. I have a studio, recording studio in the house. So I don't have to go to London anymore.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you have all arrangement there. That's very nice. How many acres?

George Harrison: It's about thirty-five.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good area.

Devotee (2): Do you get (indistinct).

Mukunda: Yes, only five hundred pounds.

Devotee (2): Really? Amazing.

George Harrison: Five hundred pounds!

Mukunda: Yes, for four acres.

George Harrison: That's quite cheap.

Mukunda: Yes, we were really surprised. But if it hadn't been for that, we'd have had no cow pasture. Cows are out there.

Prabhupāda: We have got one cow, many cows in Philadelphia. The milk bags, she gives hundred and two pounds daily.

George Harrison: Of milk? Who owns this? Who milks the cows?

Gurudāsa: Some of the devotees.

Prabhupāda: We have got tanks for storing milk, tanks.

George Harrison: Yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All up-to-date refrigerator and everything. That extra milk they are selling. Similarly, in New Vrindaban we are getting one thousand pounds milk daily. One thousand pounds.

Mukunda: That's our place in West Virginia.

George Harrison: How many cows? Must be hundred of them.

Prabhupāda: But the Philadelphia is more organized.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Through the nozzles, milk carrying, always hot water is washing it.

Jayatīrtha: There's much better facility in that Pennsylvania place. New Vrindaban's kind of.... They built it up from scratch by themselves.

Gurudāsa: Rustic.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, rustic is the word. (laughter) Pennsylvania they bought this fabulous farm all made up.

Prabhupāda: Pradyumna, give him little, this one here.

George Harrison: Oh, no, no. Please, no more. I'm really full. I won't have to eat for a few days. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Sweets.

George Harrison: Very well.

Prabhupāda: Sweet will help you digest. Don't give three—at least four.

George Harrison: I won't be able to eat much more.

Prabhupāda: Three is given to the enemy. According to our Indian system, if you give somebody three, that means he is enemy.

George Harrison: Oh, really? I always liked the number three.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) You must give at least four.

George Harrison: I like three, five, seven, nine. Those numbers.

Prabhupāda: Bring some fruit. What are the three enemies? Kama, krodha...

Pradyumna: Lobha.

Gurudāsa: Lust, anger, greed.

Prabhupāda: Three enemies-lusty desire, anger and greediness.

George Harrison: Yes. But there's a lot of nice threes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Brahma, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Three worlds, śaṅkha, martya, padma. Trinity. These are nice things.

George Harrison: Tri-guṇa.

Prabhupāda: Tri-guṇa, yes.

Jayatīrtha: The three modes, they're not so nice.

George Harrison: Well, they're all necessary.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

George Harrison: I met, I think, one of your master's other devotees, I forget his name. Gosvāmī, big, in Vṛndāvana, big, tall, with a staff, bald hair. Said you knew his name?

Gurudāsa: Puruṣottama?

George Harrison: Puruṣottama? Yes.

Mukunda: In Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: He's not a sannyāsī.

George Harrison: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: He's not sannyāsī.

George Harrison: Oh, well, the one I met had a staff. Maybe it was a different one.

Gurudāsa: Mādhava Mahārāja maybe.

Prabhupāda: Maybe Mādhava.

Jayatīrtha: He's big.

Prabhupāda: He's my Godbrother.

George Harrison: Yes, but he didn't speak English. But all the people I was with said he spoke very good Sanskrit, had a good understanding of Sanskrit. But I couldn't understand anything that he, you know.... I just watched him.

Pradyumna: I think Puruṣottama Gosāi.

Prabhupāda: He's talking of Puruṣottama.

Pradyumna: Gosāi.

Prabhupāda: He's blackish?

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupāda: Not fair complexion. Puruṣottama.

George Harrison: I think he was fair, but he was very tall, very big, and you know, like this, huge size. You know that place where I stayed the night?

Pradyumna: That's his place, Puruṣottama Gosāi.

Gurudāsa: He's not a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: He's not sannyāsī, he is householder.

Jayatīrtha: He's married man.

George Harrison: Yes, he had.... His son lived there.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

George Harrison: But maybe he's taken, I don't know, I thought he had a daṇḍa, one of those staffs. I saw the little temple in the garden, Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, where they stay in bed. It's like a bed like this. You know the one?

Pradyumna: Nidhuvana Mandir.

Prabhupāda: Nidhuvana.

George Harrison: I saw that, where He's been out all night so He doesn't get up until ten o'clock in the morning.

Prabhupāda: You have not seen our temple since it is inaugurated? No.

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupāda: This time you come. Many thousands people come to see daily.

George Harrison: I saw the photograph, looks really nice. It's big.

Gurudāsa: Now they say it's the most beautiful modern temple in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: You have seen our.... There is any film of the temple?

Gurudāsa: No, but there's photographs.

Jayatīrtha: We have a nice photograph at the reception room downstairs.

George Harrison: Actually it was half built.

Gurudāsa: Yes. Even the building you went into, there's more, the roof.

Prabhupāda: That courtyard is very beautiful. There is a tāmala tree. That is a very valuable tree. The Bisanchand Seth asked me to cut.

Gurudāsa: Yes, I remember.

Prabhupāda: What a nonsense, such a.... He has no idea. Now, on account of that tree, it looks so beautiful.

Hari-śauri: It is, it's very wonderful. The whole tree has flourished since the temple began.

Gurudāsa: We planned the whole temple around that tree. The whole plans.

George Harrison: It's a big old tree?

Pradyumna: Tree's just in the courtyard of the temple, so we left it there.

Gurudāsa: Same color as Kṛṣṇa, śyāma. Like a fresh rain cloud color. So when Rādhārāṇī sees the tree, She thinks of Kṛṣṇa. So when we see the tree we think of Kṛṣṇa. And Śrīla Prabhupāda sits underneath the tree and watches.

Prabhupāda: Rādhārāṇī in separation was embracing that tree, tāmala tree. And they say that in Vṛndāvana, only there are four tāmala trees left.

Gurudāsa: Yes, they've said four or six. Very few.

George Harrison: Is this tree still living?

Devotees: Yes, it's alive.

George Harrison: My compliments to the chef. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is this water?

Hari-śauri: Lemonade.

Prabhupāda: Is there any more?

Hari-śauri: I just took it out. I can get some.

Prabhupāda: Bring little. So I am very much pleased that you take so much trouble to come here.

George Harrison: It's my pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Yes, give a little for drinking. You want little more?



PART III: They say “George chants Hare Kṛṣṇa.”


George Harrison: Are you ever going to stop traveling?

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. I don't want, personally, but if Kṛṣṇa wants, that is everything. We have got more hundred and two centers, different parts of the world.

George Harrison: Still six more to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) We have got a very nice house in Detroit. If you sometimes go there...

George Harrison: Whereabouts?

Prabhupāda: Detroit.

George Harrison: Ah, Detroit. They need one there. Crazy place.

Jayatīrtha: Heavy place.

Prabhupāda: That house was constructed fifty years ago at the cost of six million dollars, and we have got it very cheap. Three hundred thousand dollars.

George Harrison: Was it a big house?

Hari-śauri: A very big mansion on the riverside.

George Harrison: Colonial house?

Prabhupāda: Not as big-four acres of land—but the building is very costly. One room will cost now three hundred thousand dollars. So nicely made.

Hari-śauri: They estimated it would cost about fifteen million to build such a house now.

George Harrison: Yes, they probably wouldn't even bother or be able to, at least. Is it an old house?

Hari-śauri: Fifty years old. It's very solid, though, very good condition as well.

Prabhupāda: And on the house on bottom, there is river. Not directly, but an offshoot of river. People come, rowing. A very nice situation, and because it is black quarter, nobody was purchasing. So I said that "For us, what is black or white? Purchase it." So we got very cheap. At that time I paid them hundred and fifty thousand, and (indistinct). So we purchased.

George Harrison: Did they find a temple in Hamburg? In Hamburg. I was there once, but they just had a little tiny house, and they were trying to get another.

Prabhupāda: Hamburg, I think closed?

Jayatīrtha: They have a place in Frankfurt, where the devotees are.... Just outside Frankfurt.

George Harrison: So they haven't got a place in Hamburg.

Jayatīrtha: No, it's a heavy city.

George Harrison: I was there one year when they were having fights. It's...

Jayatīrtha: Rockers. It's a heavy place.

Mukunda: Rockers.

George Harrison: It is full of gangs.

Prabhupāda: And we have got another palace, what is that village?

Jayatīrtha: South of Paris? That one?

Prabhupāda: No, France.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, south of Paris. It's near a place called Valancey. Very nice place.

Pradyumna: French chateau.

Mukunda: It's on about 250 acres.

George Harrison: Really?

Mukunda: Huge fields, beautiful place. Show you a picture of it.

George Harrison: Yes. So that's one of the goals now, one hundred and eight temples.

Jayatīrtha: Should be able to do it this year, I think.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: Should have a hundred and eight this year, I think.

Hari-śauri: Centers. One hundred and eight centers.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: Temples and farms.

Prabhupāda: We want worker. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is giving us so many centers. In India I can get so many places, but how to manage? Simply taking from persons, and if I cannot manage nicely, that does not look well. Therefore I say first of all get men, then take donation. There is no harm. How many devotees were living here?

Jayatīrtha: There's about a hundred, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then it is all right. And if there was no devotees, ten devotees, then how could we manage?

Jayatīrtha: We have about fifteen devotees that work full time on the grounds.

Prabhupāda: So what is the difficulty sprinkling water that quarter? It is costly?

Jayatīrtha: We'll try to sprinkle more, but there's a lack of water pressure.

Prabhupāda: No, pressure, by pump.

George Harrison: That's what we have, we had a little Honda pump, but you had to start it off. It's a gasoline engine, I think. And put one pipe into the lake and just pump out of the lake, and then you have a sprinkler on the other side. Makes a noise, though, that's the only thing. Makes a noise and gives off an exhaust.

Prabhupāda: A pump for, say, one hour, two hour.

George Harrison: You could use the water out of the lake, then nobody could really complain about that.

Jayatīrtha: That's how we'd have to do it, I think.

George Harrison: That probably wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't take the level down. How do you fill that up?

Mukunda: That's a natural watershed. This is the lowest place in the area in about four miles every direction. So we have all those underground water tables feeding it.

Prabhupāda: If there is rain then there is no scarcity of water. The water comes here. Yes.

George Harrison: But how, when you drain it, then how did you stop it from filling up?

Mukunda: Well, it did fill up in the winter quite a bit, but then in the summer it went back down. It's filled up now—we had to use city water to get it started. But as soon as it rains it goes up about this far.

Jayatīrtha: It's evaporated about six inches since

Mukunda: You don't have a well in your place?

George Harrison: No, just, well, that (indistinct) pond. Originally the lakes all were filled just like this as well as flooding the drains, and when it rained off the house everything would go, and we have a big storage tank, and then there's ball cocks, and underneath that big bank of rhododendrons was like a room built there, which was a storage tank. Then any other water he must have used just from the mains. But these days, you know, they have meters on the mains, so you have to pay for every gallon.

Mukunda: What about getting those water diviners to come and find water?

George Harrison: Well, you can find it I think anywhere if you just bore a hole. So what we did was just bore at the end of the lake. But you have to go down to the depth of the riverbed, and there there's not much water because the rain, it's all chalk and limestone, so the rains.... That's the problem with watering in the summer, if you put water...

Prabhupāda: From your house the river is near?

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Thames?

George Harrison: Yes. But then the Thames is here, and we're up on the hill, so we bored a hole right down to the three hundred feet, I think, three hundred and fifty feet, to the level of the river, and then a pump, we can pump that. But when it does rain or if you do water the ground, it's so chalky that it runs right through it. So it's hard to keep a lot of moisture in the water. But also at the same time all the rain water runs through, then it hits the rock level of the riverbed, there must be tons of water down there. We can pump out of there all day long for months on end, and nothing seems to dry up.

Jayatīrtha: Fantastic.

Mukunda: You could even do it by hand if you were out of electricity.

George Harrison: The hole is..., the bore is actually only about this wide. You can have a little bucket. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: You have to apply for permission, actually, to dig a well, but around here at least you have to get permission.

George Harrison: We did too. You have to put your name on the list, public notice in the local papers, and if somebody wants to complain about it, then they have a chance to. And once it's been up there for a few days or a week or something, and if nobody's made any formal complaint for any reason, like maybe they've got one and want to bore a hole, and you may be (indistinct) there, so then you just go ahead. Then it's all approved, and then your names goes on the list someplace in the county surveyor's office. So you do have to go through a, you know, a couple of months of waiting. Just to, say, bore a hole to replenish, and you have to just pay for the cost to bore a hole and the pump. To lay out electricity to where the pump is. The pump is, you know, just in the ground, you can't even see it. You know, by that weeping willow tree?

Prabhupāda: So if you want to take little rest, we can arrange for that. Resting.

George Harrison: Rest? Prabhupāda: Yes, for you.

George Harrison: No, no.

Jayatīrtha: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you want to rest.

George Harrison: You take a rest.

Prabhupāda: I am taking rest now these twenty-four hours. I have no other business than to take rest. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Always resting at the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is real rest.


kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam

adyaiva viśatu me mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ

prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ

kaṇṭhāvarodhana-vidhau smaranaṁ kutas te

[MM 33]


The Mukunda-māla-stotra... There was a big emperor, Samrat(?), Kulaśekhara, emperor Kulaśekhara, he was a great devotee. So he wrote some poetry. Formerly, kings were so advanced, rajarṣi. They are king, at the same time, saintly persons. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]—this science of Bhagavad-gītā was learned by the rājarṣis. People were happy therefore. The head, or the executive, they were all saintly persons. So this Kulasekhara, he writes in the beginning of his poetry, "Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam. The paṅkaja means lotus flower. So Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is just like lotus flower. The lotus flower has stem down, and the swans, they take pleasure to go down the water and entangled by the stem. Have you seen their pleasure? Yes. That is their great sporting, to be entangled by the stem and come out, in this way, go deep, this is their sporting. So this Kulasekhara is praying, "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, let my swan of mind be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam adyaiva: "Immediately"—viśatu—"let enter." Who? Adyaiva viśatu me, "My," mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ, "my mind, which is just like a swan." So why adyaiva, immediately? He says that prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye, "At the time of death," prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ, "when the physical condition of the body         will be in disorder," kapha, pitta, vayu will not be in order.... Prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ kaṇṭhāvarodha, "At that time I shall not be able to speak. I'll 'ahn, ahn,' but that's all. So I may not be able to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Better I am now in good health, so let my mind be entangled in the stem of Your lotus feet." Very nice poetry.


kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-panjarāntam

adyaiva viśatu me mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ

prāna-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ

kaṇṭhāvarodhana-vidhau smaraṇaṁ kutas te

[MM 33]


"At that time I may be not able to utter 'Kṛṣṇa' or think of You, and now I am healthy, let me finish this business." That means "Let me die immediately. Now I'm healthy, I'm quite fit." This is the ideal. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. At the time of death, if one remembers Kṛṣṇa, then his life is successful. Immediately he goes to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Ajamila. He chanted "Narayana," and immediately his path to Vaikuntha become clear. So this practice means, whatever we practice all through life, there is chance of coming that remembrance at the time of death, and then it is successful, life is success. If at the time of death one can remember Kṛṣṇa, then his whole life is successful. Our one student, Kārttikeya, his mother was very fortunate. So his mother had nothing to do with this Society, but the boy was attached, and she heard several times "Kṛṣṇa," that this boy is attached to Kṛṣṇa. At the time of her death, she asked her son, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and died. Just see how fortunate she is. She simply uttered this word, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" then she died. Very fortunate. So on account of her son she got salvation. Otherwise, Kārttikeya told me that he went to see his mother, and the mother was going to ball dance, and the mother did not receive him well. "All right, you sit down. I'll come again." She was such lady. But by Kṛṣṇa's grace, at the time of death, she inquired her son, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" Very fortunate.


George Harrison: When my mother died I had to send my sister and father out of the room, because they were getting emotional, and I just chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: She chanted.

George Harrison: I did.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very nice, so she could hear?

George Harrison: I don't know, I don't know, she was in like a coma or something. It was the only thing I could think of.

Prabhupāda: When it happened?

George Harrison: In 1970. It was the only thing I could think of that may be of value, you know.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if she has heard Hare Kṛṣṇa, she'll get the benefit. Either she chants or somebody chanting, if she hears, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, both the same thing. Little chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. So let us practice in such a way that at the time of death we may remember. That is success. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So you are reading Kṛṣṇa repeatedly? Kṛṣṇa book you are reading repeatedly?

George Harrison: Well, you know, I read it every so often. I always take the Gītā with me wherever I go. I mean that's the one I just keep all the time. But you know, I'll just sometimes read a little of something, a little bit of something else. I've never been a great reader.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, you have got chance here to think soberly. But on account of your chanting "Kṛṣṇa" so many people are chanting.

George Harrison: I don't think it's on my account.

Prabhupāda: No, they say "George chants Hare Kṛṣṇa." They say. Do they not?

Mukunda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And you have got many thousands followers.

George Harrison: It's nice, but I think we all...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you go on chanting. That will influence. There is a poetry written by, I think in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Rupa Gosvāmī is wondering, "I do not know what sweetness there is in these two words, Kṛṣ-ṇa."

Gurudāsa: The verse starts with priya, "dear."

Prabhupāda: Varna-dvayī. You remember this verse? No jane, "What kind of nectar it is there in these two words, Kṛṣ-ṇa?" You have seen Deity today? No, it was closed.

George Harrison: It was closed.

Jayatīrtha: It's open again now.

Prabhupāda: When it is open?

Jayatīrtha: It's open now, the ārati is going on.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Sometimes you can come and stay here, see the ārati, at least one day, whole program, how they are doing. What is the program whole day?

Jayatīrtha: It starts at four-fifteen, the ārati, then we worship Tulasī-devī, chant japa and have class, and then prasādam eight-fifteen. Then during the day we all work, and in the evening again, seven o'clock, everyone comes together for the ārati, class.



PART IV: Gurukula and Varṇāśrama


George Harrison: How is that school in Texas, you know, with all the children?

Gurudāsa: Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: They have six schools now, other than that. This place in France, they have a school there, this farm, and in Dallas, Los Angeles, Pennsylvania, Māyāpur.

Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana Gurukula also was started.

George Harrison: There's all kinds of strange things written in those newspapers, Dallas, strange things. Particularly about the little children's school.

Hari-śauri: It's because they don't bother to find out before they write things.

Gurudāsa: Just like they said that the children sleep in the basement. That's because it was in the hot summer. Everyone goes to the basement in the summer in Dallas.

Mukunda: The kids don't feel any difficulty at all sleeping on the floor. Children are naturally austere. It's just after you get to a certain age that conditioning affects you.

Devotee: They say they live without furniture. (laughter)

Gurudāsa: They're prejudiced about those things.

Jayatīrtha: They have to eat with their hands. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You have got the last copy of Seventh Canto?

Hari-śauri: Seven, Three?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mukunda: There's some books that came out since I brought those last books.

George Harrison: There's also somebody, I think it was a guy who was trying to get his wife back or something. (laughs) I know it was in California, and he was saying "They've stolen my wife." These stories kill me, I mean it's so funny because the way...

Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, brahmacārī gurukule.

Hari-śauri: I think that's in Seven, Two.

Harikeśa: Sixteenth Chapter, first verse, I think. It's the first verse, brahmacārī gurukule.

Jayatīrtha: One man came to the temple, he heard that his daughter had participated in one of our fire sacrifices, and he was afraid that...

George Harrison: Fire sacrifices?

Jayatīrtha: When we have initiations we have a fire sacrifice. He was afraid that she had been sacrificed. (laughter)



śrī-nārada uvāca

brahmacārī guru-kule

vasan dānto guror hitam

ācaran dāsavan nico

gurau sudṛḍha-sauhṛdaḥ

[SB 7.12.1]


"Nārada Muni said, A student should practice completely controlling his senses. He should be submissive and should have an attitude of firm friendship for the spiritual master. With a great vow, the brahmacārī should live at the gurukula, only for the benefit of the guru."

Prabhupāda: Next.




sāyaṁ prātar upāsīta


sandhye ubhe ca yata-vāg

japan brahma samāhitaḥ


"At both junctions of day, namely, in the early morning and in the evening, he should be fully absorbed in thoughts of the spiritual master, fire, the sun-god and Lord Viṣṇu, and by chanting the Gāyatrī mantra he should worship them."

Prabhupāda: Go on reading.




chandāṁsy adhīyīta guror

āhūtaś cet suyantritaḥ

upakrame 'vasāne ca

caraṇau śirasā namet


"Being called by the spiritual master, the student should study the Vedic mantras regularly. Every day, before beginning his studies and at the end of his studies, the disciple should respectfully offer obeisances unto the spiritual master."




bibhṛyād upavītaṁ ca

darbha-pāṇir yathoditam


"Carrying pure kuṣa grass in his hand, the brahmacārī should dress regularly with a belt of straw and with deerskin garments. He should wear matted hair, carry a rod and waterpot, and be decorated with a sacred thread, as recommended in the śāstras."


sāyaṁ prātaś cared bhaikṣyaṁ

gurave tan nivedayet

bhuñjīta yady anujñāto

no ced upasvaset kvacit


"The brahmacārī should go out morning and evening to collect alms, and he should offer all that he collects to the spiritual master. He should eat only if ordered to take food by the spiritual master; otherwise, if the spiritual master does not give this order, he may sometimes have to fast."


suśīlo mita-bhug dakṣaḥ

śraddadhāno jitendriyaḥ

yāvad-arthaṁ vyavaharet

strīṣu strī-nirjiteṣu ca


"A brahmacārī should be quite well behaved and gentle and should not eat or collect more than necessary. He must always be active and expert, fully believing in the instructions of the spiritual master and the sastra. Fully controlling his senses, he should associate only as much as necessary with women or those controlled by women."


varjayet pramadā-gāthām

agṛhastho bṛhad-vrataḥ

indriyāṇi pramāthīni

haranty api yater manaḥ


"A brahmacārī, or one who has not accepted the grhastha āśrama (family life), must rigidly avoid talking with women or about women, for the senses are so powerful that they may agitate even the mind of a sannyāsī, a member of the renounced order of life."




guru-strībhir yuvatibhiḥ

kārayen nātmano yuvā


"If the wife of the spiritual master is young, a young brahmacārī should not allow her to care for his hair, massage his body with oil, or bathe him with affection like a mother."


nanvagniḥ pramadā nāma

ghṛta-kumbha-samaḥ pumān

sutām api raho jahyād

anyadā yāvad-artha-kṛt


"Woman is compared to fire, and man is compared to a butter pot. Therefore a man should avoid associating even with his own daughter in a secluded place. Similarly, he should also avoid association with other women. One should associate with women only for important business and not otherwise."


kalpayitvātmanā yāvad

ābhāsam idam īśvaraḥ

dvaitaṁ tāvan na viramet

tato hy asya viparyayaḥ


"As long as a living entity is not completely self-realized—as long as he is not independent of the misconception of identifying with his body, which is nothing but a reflection of the original body and senses—he cannot be relieved of the conception of duality, which is epitomized by the duality between man and woman. Thus there is every chance that he will fall down because his intelligence is bewildered."


etat sarvaṁ gṛhasthasya

samāmnātaṁ yater api

guru-vṛttir vikalpena



"All the rules and regulations apply equally to the householder and the sannyāsī, the member of the renounced order of life. The grhastha, however, is given permission by the spiritual master to indulge in sex during the period favorable for procreation."



stry-avalekhāmiṣaṁ madhu


trajeyur ye bṛhad-vratāḥ


"Brahmacārīs or grhasthas who have taken the vow of celibacy as described above should not indulge in the following: applying powder or ointment to the eyes, massaging the head with oil, massaging the body with the hands, seeing a woman or painting a woman's picture, eating meat, drinking wine, decorating the body with flower garlands, smearing scented ointment on the body, or decorating the body with ornaments. These they should give up."


uṣitvaivaṁ guru-kule

dvijo 'dhītyāvabudhya ca

trayīṁ sāṅgopaniṣadaṁ

yāvad-arthaṁ yathā-balam


dattvā varam anujñāto

guroḥ kāmaṁ yadīśvaraḥ

gṛhaṁ vanaṁ vā praviśet

pravrajet tatra vā vaset


"According to the rules and regulations mentioned above, one who is twice-born, namely a brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya, should reside in the gurukula under the care of the spiritual master. There he should study and learn all the Vedic literatures along with their supplements and Upanisads, according to his ability and power to study. If possible, the student or disciple should reward the spiritual master with the remuneration the spiritual master requests, and then, following the master's order, the disciple should leave and accept one of the other āśramas, namely the grhastha āśrama, vanaprastha āśrama, or sannyasa āśrama, as he desires."


Prabhupāda: So this is my copy?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You can give.

Hari-śauri: This is Prabhupāda's latest book just came out.

George Harrison: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What was it he was saying? I thought you were going to read out of here something about Kṛṣ-ṇa, the two...

Pradyumna: This was about the brahmacārī in the gurukula, in the school, what a young child should learn to practice.

George Harrison: Yes. But I thought you were saying something about the sound of the two sounds of Kṛṣ and ṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayī.

Gurudāsa: Ah, yes. "I wish I had ten thousand ears to hear the sweet sound of Kṛṣṇa, and ten thousand tongues to say it."

George Harrison: So this isn't..., I didn't get this one?

Mukunda: Not yet, no. That's latest. It just came out.

George Harrison: Seventh Canto, Part Three.

Hari-śauri: They bring the first two copies to Śrīla Prabhupāda wherever he is. This we got in New York just before we left.

Gurudāsa: It's right off the press.

Prabhupāda: These pictures are made by our boys.

George Harrison: Yes, beautiful.

Prabhupāda: They are learning more and more.

Hari-śauri: This one is very good because it explains the breakdown of the social positions.

George Harrison: Hm?

Hari-śauri: The varṇāśrama system. It's very good.

Prabhupāda: This instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was never given before in the Western countries. This is the first time.

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're appreciating. We are selling our books daily sixty thousand dollars. All over the world.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're going to outdo Shakespeare soon. You'll have written more English words than William Shakespeare. (Prabhupāda laughs) Maybe you already have.

Hari-śauri: I don't think Shakespeare's brought out fifty-six books. Mukunda: The Encyclopedia Brittanica wrote to us asking for...

Prabhupāda: They have said...

George Harrison: These books are such a lot of work. I don't know how he did it all.

Gurudāsa: While everyone else sleeps, Prabhupāda...

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: At night I don't sleep. Not that because I am nowadays sick. But generally I don't sleep. At most two hours. At most.

Hari-śauri: I think it's a long time since you've taken any rest at night.

Prabhupāda: I take little rest during daytime. So on the whole, three to four hours. But actually I do not like to sleep.

George Harrison: No, it's a waste of time.

Prabhupāda: I think it is, when I go to sleep, I think that now I'm going to waste my time. I actually think like that.

George Harrison: What's the word for..., the call it a little, little death. Sleep is the little death.

Prabhupāda: The śāstra also, Prahlada Mahārāja describes the sleeping is waste of time. You find out that verse.

Hari-śauri: It's in Seven, Two?

Prabhupāda: Seventh Canto. He's estimating you have got hundred years at most. Out of that, fifty years lost, sleep. And then twenty years playing as child, a boy. And in old age, another...



puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus

tad-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ

niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ

śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ

[SB 7.6.6]


"Every human being has a maximum duration of life of one hundred years, but for one who cannot control his senses, half of those years are completely lost because at night he sleeps twelve hours, being covered by ignorance. Therefore such a person has a lifetime of only fifty years."


Prabhupāda: Fifty years immediately minus. Then out of the fifty years?



mugdhasya bālye kaiśore

krīḍato yāti viṁsatiḥ

jarayā grasta-dehasya

yāty akalpasya viṁśatiḥ

[SB 7.6.7]


"In the tender age of childhood, when everyone is bewildered, one passes ten years. Similarly, in boyhood, engaged in sporting and playing, one passes another ten years. In this way, twenty years are wasted. Similarly, in old age, when one is an invalid, unable to perform even material activities, one passes another twenty years wastefully."


durāpūreṇa kāmena

mohena ca balīyasā

śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya

pramattasyāpayāti hi

[SB 7.6.8]


"One whose mind and senses are uncontrolled becomes increasingly attached to family life because of insatiable lusty desires and very strong illusion. In such a madman's life the remaining years are also wasted, because even during those years he cannot engage himself in devotional service."


Prabhupāda: So hundred years finish. (laughs) Fifty years, twenty years, twenty years and ten years.

George Harrison: Which volume is that?

Hari-śauri: This is the one before that one.

George Harrison: Part Two.

Hari-śauri: Yes. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instructions.

Prabhupāda: You can give that volume also.

George Harrison: Did you, do you.... I'm not too sure which ones I've got up to.

Mukunda: He's got up to.... You've got about two more coming before that. I'll give them to you.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa varṇa-dvayī, you have got that?

Jayatīrtha: I found that verse. Actually, Rancor found it. Tuṇḍe tāṇḍavinī ratim vitanute tuṇḍāvalī-ladbhaye.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pradyumna? You just note down this verse and give him.

Jayatīrtha: And the translation is "I do not know how much nectar the two syllables 'kṛṣ-ṇa' have produced. When the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is chanted, it appears to dance within the mouth. We then desire many, many mouths. When that name enters the holes of the ears, we desire many millions of years. And when the holy name dances in the courtyard of the heart, it conquers the activities of the mind, and therefore all the senses become inert." That was Rupa Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice poetry. Read it gain. Tuṇḍe tāṇḍavinī...

Jayatīrtha: The English? I don't chant very well. Harikeśa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you first of all recite. Very nice.



tuṇḍe tāṇḍavinī ratiṁ vitanute tuṇḍāvalī-ladbhaye

karṇa-kroḍa-kaḍambinī ghaṭayate karṇārbudebhyaḥ

spṛhām cetaḥ-prāṅgaṇa-saṅginī vijayate sarvendriyāṇāṁ kṛtiṁ

no jāne janitā kiyadbhir amṛtaiḥ kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayī


Prabhupāda: One thing you can record and give him.

Hari-śauri: I'll make a copy of this tape and give it to him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, you should recite very properly, and then it will recorded. Then it will be right.

George Harrison: This is Sanskrit.

Jayatīrtha: That's Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: In India, all different states they have got different alphabets, but the Sanskrit is the same. There is no change in Sanskrit. India's culture, all the provinces, they talk a little Sanskrit. If you chant this mantra according to the Sanskrit tune, oh, your admirers will take it very nicely. (laughter) And that will be a great benefit to the mass of people.

George Harrison: I don't know if they'd like it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

George Harrison: They don't understand. Already they don't understand such a lot. Even if you say it in English. Even when you say things to them in English, they don't understand.

Prabhupāda: That word Kṛṣṇa, if they hear, that will be sufficient.

George Harrison: We were in Vṛndāvana, somebody, we were singing, singing in the morning, singing this "Jaya Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.

George Harrison: And he asked, this person said to me, "You should make it into a song in English." So I wrote English verses, and in each chorus it as "jaya kṛṣṇa, jaya kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa, jaya kṛṣṇa, jaya śrī kṛṣṇa; jaya rādhe, jaya rādhe, rādhe, jaya rādhe, jaya śrī rādhe." I don't know, did you..., if you heard that song. It was on that "Extra Texture"—you know that one? "He who..." I wrote the English words. "He whose eyes have seen what our lives have been, and who we really are—it is He, jaya śrī kṛṣṇa." And then it has a chorus. "He whose sweetness flows to any one of those that cares to look His way, see His smile, jaya śrī rādhe," then the chorus again.

Mukunda: This is on George's new record.

George Harrison: No, it was last year. And "He who is complete, three worlds at His feet, cause of every star, it is He, jaya śrī kṛṣṇa." It's a nice song. But I took the old, the tune that we sang in Vṛndāvana, and just make slightly different, you know, with chords, chord patterns.

Prabhupāda: So in your next record, you can give this. (laughter)

George Harrison: [break] ...this little girl, he had a baby girl and was trying to think of a name, so I told him to call it Dhara, you know? 'Cause from Rādhā-rādhārādhārādhā—it becomes dhārā. So he called his girl that name.

Jayatīrtha: There's a story of Valmiki, you know that story?

Gurudāsa: Maramaramaramaramaramara.

Jayatīrtha: Valmiki was a murderer, or a dacoit, thief. So he was met by Nārada Muni, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Valmiki.

Jayatīrtha: And he was advised by Nārada Muni to please chant the holy name of the Lord and give up this thievery. So he wouldn't. So instead Nārada Muni said, "You chant mara." Mara means death. So he agreed.

Prabhupāda: Maramara, rāma.

Jayatīrtha: Later on, this Valmiki, he wrote the Rāmāyaṇa after having chanting rāma, mara, he became purified.

Hari-śauri: Transcendental trickery.

Jayatīrtha: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.